Is Adora Belle Dearheart a Northerner?

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RathDarkblade

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Mar 24, 2015
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#1
What the thread title says. ;) In "Making Money", she mentions that 'minced collops' is her favourite childhood food. For a long time, I puzzled over this because I had no idea what 'minced collops' are.

For those who are in the same boat -- puzzle no more! :) Here is a little explanation, plus a couple of recipes. It looks like simple winter food -- minced beef, diced onions, spices, white stock (or water) and oatmeal, all mixed together and left to simmer for an hour or so.

The "Foods of England" website also mentions that the use of minced (very finely cut) beef is unusual and occurs only in Northern England and the Borders, which naturally leads me to ask - is Adora Belle Dearheart a Northerner? ;) What do you reckon? :)
 
Jul 27, 2008
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Stirlingshire, Scotland
#2
What the thread title says. ;) In "Making Money", she mentions that 'minced collops' is her favourite childhood food. For a long time, I puzzled over this because I had no idea what 'minced collops' are.

For those who are in the same boat -- puzzle no more! :)Here is a little explanation, plus a couple of recipes. It looks like simple winter food -- minced beef, diced onions, spices, white stock (or water) and oatmeal, all mixed together and left to simmer for an hour or so.

The "Foods of England" website also mentions that the use of minced (very finely cut) beef is unusual and occurs only in Northern England and the Borders, which naturally leads me to ask - is Adora Belle Dearheart a Northerner? ;) What do you reckon? :)
Absolute bullshit, Rath where did they get that info from Faceborg. Mince as it is commonly known is sold all over the UK, the most popular dish is mince and mashed potatoes with gravy.
 

Tonyblack

Super Moderator
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Jul 25, 2008
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Cardiff, Wales
#3
I don't think there is a "north" on Discworld :mrgreen: However doesn't seem to have the accent. Dick Simnel, on the other hand seems to have been written with a northern accent. There are certainly distinct accents and dialects in the UK. The people, in the town of Caerphilly, which is just eight miles from me, have a very different accent to people from Cardiff.

Another example I can think of is the dwarfs from Llamedos, seem to read as having welsh accents and so on.

I suspect Terry used the "minced collops" because it sounds weird.
 

Woofb

Constable
Oct 24, 2021
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#4
I don't think there is a "north" on Discworld :mrgreen: However doesn't seem to have the accent. Dick Simnel, on the other hand seems to have been written with a northern accent.
Specifically Yorkshire


There are certainly distinct accents and dialects in the UK. The people, in the town of Caerphilly, which is just eight miles from me, have a very different accent to people from Cardiff.

Another example I can think of is the dwarfs from Llamedos, seem to read as having welsh accents and so on.

I suspect Terry used the "minced collops" because it sounds weird.
 

RathDarkblade

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#7
Absolute bullshit, Rath where did they get that info from Faceborg.
Nope - the two recipes are from "English Housewifry" by Elizabeth Moxon (available for free on Project Gutenberg), and from the "Lancashire Evening Post" of 23 October, 1935. :)

Mince as it is commonly known is sold all over the UK, the most popular dish is mince and mashed potatoes with gravy.
I'm not disputing that. My first link simply has the original recipe from the 1700s, which I thought was interesting. :)
 
Jul 27, 2008
19,782
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Stirlingshire, Scotland
#8
Nope - the two recipes are from "English Housewifry" by Elizabeth Moxon (available for free on Project Gutenberg), and from the "Lancashire Evening Post" of 23 October, 1935. :)



I'm not disputing that. My first link simply has the original recipe from the 1700s, which I thought was interesting. :)
Meat in that period and was expensive and only eaten by the well off, the poorer ate a lot of offal, maybe you should have stated the dates to which you originally referred, it would have made more sense then.:rolleyes:
 

=Tamar

Lieutenant
May 20, 2012
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#9
"Mince" as in the fruit mix sold for mince pie, or mince as in chopped beef?
The 1774 recipe thickens it with some flour but essentially is frying the mix. The result seems to be something like hamburger.
The 1935 version seems to be a way to stretch the meat by mixing it with oatmeal and boiling it down.
The OED has many definitions but generally collops refers to a slice of fatty meat; in 1777 it was specifically dried, salted, or hung, as opposed to fresh. Northern usages seem to imply chopped into small pieces, possibly like stew beef (it could also be bacon or mutton).
In any case, I think the "minced" part implies the northern concept. Adora Belle's family may have come from polewards originally and lost the accent while keeping the favorite foods.
 

=Tamar

Lieutenant
May 20, 2012
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#11
Ah, thank you. I knew there was a word, just had a blank moment. Hubwards, Rimwards, Turnwise and Widdershins.
 

Woofb

Constable
Oct 24, 2021
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#12
In both Reaper Man (Dick Simnel’s presumable ancestor with the Combination Harvester) and Raising Steam, the character is Yorkshire Turned Up to Eleven
The Welsh accent (and bardic/Druidic culture) is only really shown in one book (Soul Music), although I think some of the dwarfs come from that area.
Lancre could be Northern/Hubwards (Lancashire), not much lying flat, and a great place for wizards and particularly witches to come from but it is also rural compared to the great urban sprawl of Ankh-Morpork.
Quirm is the very-cultural-especially-French place that exports cuisine (like cookery especially with avec) and all the artistic and scientific inventions in the person of Leonardo (cough) Leonard.
There’s an Italy, Brindisi, (for operatic purposes) only shown in one book, Masquerade (although some of it sounds Spanish)
Klatch in Jingo and Soul Music is fantasy Arabia, complete with sand and deserts and camels, D’regs as Tuaregs, and complicated guest rights that might not last for long.
 
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RathDarkblade

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#13
In both Reaper Man (Dick Simnel’s presumable ancestor with the Combination Harvester) and Raising Steam, the character is Yorkshire Turned Up to Eleven
Aye, gradely! ;) As an aside, I've never been to Yorkshire (being from the antipodes, travelling to the UK takes the best part of two days), but I can guess what "gradely" means.

The Welsh accent (and bardic/Druidic culture) is only really shown in one book (Soul Music), although I think some of the dwarfs come from that area.
I think Rhys Rhysson, the High King of the Dwarfs, comes from a mine in Llamedos. IIRC, in TFE, Cheery tells Vimes why that's causing friction among the dwarfs.

Quirm is the very-cultural-especially-French place that exports cuisine (like cookery especially with avec) and all the artistic and scientific inventions in the person of Leonardo (cough) Leonard.
Definitely -- though I'm not sure what the maquis (i.e. the bare scrubland, where goblins live and which brigands
that eat them
infest) has to do with France. Perhaps it has something to do with Burgundy? *shrug* For a long time during and after the Hundred Years War, Burgundy was more or less a no-go area because of the traditional enmity between the House of Valois and the Duchy of Burgundy.

There’s an Italy, Brindisi, (for operatic purposes) only shown in one book, Masquerade (although some of it sounds Spanish)
Tiny nitpick: it's "Maskerade". :) Spot on for Italy, though I'm not sure why it sounds Spanish? Can you elaborate, please?

Klatch in Jingo and Soul Music is fantasy Arabia, complete with sand and deserts and camels, D’regs as Tuaregs, and complicated guest rights that might not last for long.
Nope! Just Tree Dace. :mrgreen:

Since we're talking geography:

- Ephebe is obviously ancient Greece - and as a minor linguistic bonus, the word ephebe in Greek means a lad who's grown to manhood :)
- The Tezumen are obviously Aztecs, though there's definite Incan influences too
- The Counterweight Continent is a strange mix of China and Japan, but it works
- Fourecks is (obviously) the Antipodes! :mrgreen: But definitely Taken Up to Eleven. IRL, not everything here tries to kill you. =P
- Uberwald is Transylvania, natch (with more than a touch of medieval Russia to boot)
- Moldavia/Borogravia etc. are obviously the Balkan states
- Genua sounds like a mix between N'awrlins and (under Lilith de Tempscire) Disneyland
- Djelibeybe is ... oh, come on ...;)
- I'm not sure if Omnia is supposed to have any RL-equivalent (other than theocracies, of course)

I'm sure I've missed a few, but I'm sure everyone can fill in the rest :)
 

Woofb

Constable
Oct 24, 2021
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#14
Brindisi has Señor where it should be Signor.

As for Omnia, it’s a cross between the Reformation, the Spanish Inquisition, and in modern times the Jehovah’s Witnesses and the moderate Anglicans.

How much decency, kindness, sense of humour, intelligence and common sense can do against fanaticism
 

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