I couldn't find a pre-existing thread for these guys, so I hope nobody minds if I start one. 
***WARNING: LONG***
***WARNING: I've read loads about Chinese history and the Mongols. If this bores you, please skip to "The Silver Horde, Roundworld, and Seven"***
The Silver Horde, the Golden Horde, and the Mongols
In Interesting Times, we learn about Cohen's "Silver Horde", a bunch of similarly old barbarians, to (a stand-in for China).
What about Genghis Khan? He began the Mongol conquest of China, but his grandson Kublai Khan finished it, founded the Yuan Dynasty and unified China under Mongol rule, becoming the first non-Chinese to rule China. Kublai also for introduced paper money (to stimulate the economy), encouraged religious toleration and intellectuals, and opened trade to the west. In Kublai's time, Marco Polo and his uncles visit China and stay with the Khan for 26 years.
After Kublai Khan's son died without an heir, the empire split into four "little empires":
1. The Ilkhanate took most of the middle east;
2. The Chagatai Khan took India, Afghanistan and central Asia;
3. The Yuan Dynasty continued to rule Mongolia and China; and
4. The Golden Horde took much of eastern Europe: Ukraine, parts of Russia, the Caucasus (modern-day Georgia, Bulgaria, eastern Hungary and so on).
This is the Horde most westerners have heard of. The Silver Horde idea is great fun, and I love them all. Little grand-dads who can beat anyone.
The Silver Horde, Roundworld, and Seven
The Silver Horde has seven members:
- Genghis Cohen himself
- Truckle the Uncivil
- Boy Willie (so called because he's the only one under eighty, though only slightly under)
- Caleb the Ripper
- Mad Hamish
- Old Vincent (ironic in that all of the Horde are old)
- Mr. Ronald Saveloy (geography teacher turned barbarian adventurer), or, as the Horde call him, Teach.
They are rumoured to be "the legendary Seven Indestructible Sages", previously unheard of, but "Perhaps legends have to start somewhere".
I found at least three countries that have "legendary Seven Sages": The Seven Sages of the Bamboo Grove (China), the Saptarshi (seers in ancient India), and Seven Sages of ancient Greece. I have no idea what binds these three countries together, but I'm sure other countries have a similar list. Maybe people just like the number seven.
But I'm sure that when Pterry wrote about "the Seven Indestructible Sages", he was thinking of at least one of these groups of sages. Or, since the Horde are warriors, Pterry might have thought of the classic Japanese film, Seven Samurai ... and there's clearly also a link between the Agatean Empire and Japan. Whatever: seven is clearly a good number for legends.
The Seven become Five. Why?
By The Last Hero, we have lost two heroes: Genghis Cohen is clearly affected by this, and spends some time brooding and thinking.
But why five left? Yes, five (like seven) is a mystic number: half of ten, fingers on your hand and so on. But eight is also a mystic number (it represents infinity), and the six-man Horde could easily have gained another two barbarians. So, why five?
I have three answers for this. Do any of them seem right? Wrong? Interesting? Please let me know what you think.
1. The simplest answer: Five are much easier to manage (and give different personalities to) than seven or eight. This is the "Author's Reason".
2. The mystic answer: in Chinese history, between 300 and 440 AD, a group of so-called 'barbarian tribes' (known in Chinese as Five Barbarians immigrated to northern China, overthrew the ruling dynasty, and established their own short-lived kingdoms (for no more than about 10-20 years).
Remind you of anyone? A group of barbarians (aka Silver Horde) come to China (aka Agatea), overthrow the order, and establish a short-lived kingdom. Did Pterry think of these "five barbarians", which is why the seven became five? I know this is controversial, but the similarities are uncanny.
3. The five become seven again. We start with five barbarians. By the end of TLH, the Silver Horde are joined by two new members: Evil Harry and Vena the Raven-Haired. Both of them know Cohen well and join his quest willingly.
The Minstrel is another case. By the end of the book, he becomes a full-fledged bard (with a degree in Sagas). I think we could argue as follows:
1. The Minstrel is the 8th (unofficial) member.
2. The number 8 stands for infinity. (Put it on its side, and it's the Infinity Symbol).
3. So, the Minstrel is the infinite: he keeps his promise to Cohen, and ensures that the legends of Cohen and the Horde never die. It is heartwarming to think so.
Logically, since the legends never die, neither do Cohen and the Horde. That's why they The Discworld has grown too boring for them, and proved that it does not need Barbarian Heroes. So Cohen and the Horde give the Discworld a two-finger salute and go to a world that does. It is just like them: they spent the whole of TLH See you later, Discworld!!! ;-P
Anyway, I've ranted more than enough about how much I love Genghis Cohen and the Horde. What about you?
***WARNING: LONG***
***WARNING: I've read loads about Chinese history and the Mongols. If this bores you, please skip to "The Silver Horde, Roundworld, and Seven"***
The Silver Horde, the Golden Horde, and the Mongols
In Interesting Times, we learn about Cohen's "Silver Horde", a bunch of similarly old barbarians, to (a stand-in for China).
What about Genghis Khan? He began the Mongol conquest of China, but his grandson Kublai Khan finished it, founded the Yuan Dynasty and unified China under Mongol rule, becoming the first non-Chinese to rule China. Kublai also for introduced paper money (to stimulate the economy), encouraged religious toleration and intellectuals, and opened trade to the west.
In Kublai's time, Marco Polo and his uncles visit China and stay with the Khan for 26 years.After Kublai Khan's son died without an heir, the empire split into four "little empires":
1. The Ilkhanate took most of the middle east;
2. The Chagatai Khan took India, Afghanistan and central Asia;
3. The Yuan Dynasty continued to rule Mongolia and China; and
4. The Golden Horde took much of eastern Europe: Ukraine, parts of Russia, the Caucasus (modern-day Georgia, Bulgaria, eastern Hungary and so on).
This is the Horde most westerners have heard of. The Silver Horde idea is great fun, and I love them all. Little grand-dads who can beat anyone.
The Silver Horde, Roundworld, and Seven
The Silver Horde has seven members:
- Genghis Cohen himself
- Truckle the Uncivil
- Boy Willie (so called because he's the only one under eighty, though only slightly under)
- Caleb the Ripper
- Mad Hamish
- Old Vincent (ironic in that all of the Horde are old)
- Mr. Ronald Saveloy (geography teacher turned barbarian adventurer), or, as the Horde call him, Teach.
They are rumoured to be "the legendary Seven Indestructible Sages", previously unheard of, but "Perhaps legends have to start somewhere".
I found at least three countries that have "legendary Seven Sages": The Seven Sages of the Bamboo Grove (China), the Saptarshi (seers in ancient India), and Seven Sages of ancient Greece. I have no idea what binds these three countries together, but I'm sure other countries have a similar list. Maybe people just like the number seven.
But I'm sure that when Pterry wrote about "the Seven Indestructible Sages", he was thinking of at least one of these groups of sages.
Or, since the Horde are warriors, Pterry might have thought of the classic Japanese film, Seven Samurai ... and there's clearly also a link between the Agatean Empire and Japan. Whatever: seven is clearly a good number for legends.The Seven become Five. Why?
By The Last Hero, we have lost two heroes: Genghis Cohen is clearly affected by this, and spends some time brooding and thinking.
But why five left? Yes, five (like seven) is a mystic number: half of ten, fingers on your hand and so on. But eight is also a mystic number (it represents infinity), and the six-man Horde could easily have gained another two barbarians. So, why five?
I have three answers for this. Do any of them seem right? Wrong? Interesting?
Please let me know what you think. 1. The simplest answer: Five are much easier to manage (and give different personalities to) than seven or eight. This is the "Author's Reason".
2. The mystic answer: in Chinese history, between 300 and 440 AD, a group of so-called 'barbarian tribes' (known in Chinese as Five Barbarians immigrated to northern China, overthrew the ruling dynasty, and established their own short-lived kingdoms (for no more than about 10-20 years).
Remind you of anyone?
A group of barbarians (aka Silver Horde) come to China (aka Agatea), overthrow the order, and establish a short-lived kingdom. Did Pterry think of these "five barbarians", which is why the seven became five? I know this is controversial, but the similarities are uncanny.3. The five become seven again. We start with five barbarians. By the end of TLH, the Silver Horde are joined by two new members: Evil Harry and Vena the Raven-Haired.
Both of them know Cohen well and join his quest willingly.The Minstrel is another case. By the end of the book, he becomes a full-fledged bard (with a degree in Sagas).
I think we could argue as follows:1. The Minstrel is the 8th (unofficial) member.
2. The number 8 stands for infinity. (Put it on its side, and it's the Infinity Symbol).
3. So, the Minstrel is the infinite: he keeps his promise to Cohen, and ensures that the legends of Cohen and the Horde never die.
It is heartwarming to think so.Logically, since the legends never die, neither do Cohen and the Horde. That's why they The Discworld has grown too boring for them, and proved that it does not need Barbarian Heroes. So Cohen and the Horde give the Discworld a two-finger salute and go to a world that does.
It is just like them: they spent the whole of TLH See you later, Discworld!!! ;-PAnyway, I've ranted more than enough about how much I love Genghis Cohen and the Horde. What about you?
