SPOILERS Eric Discussion **Spoilers**
- Thread starter Tonyblack
- Start date
Re:
In Italian I don't know but in German, pronounced in native German tongue, it slightly sounds like "Wassen Ego!", literally translated "What an ego!" (I don't know if there is a similar cry of despair in English), meaning somebody with a very very big self-confidence who wants to climb the ladder very very fast (and often also may be very selfish, an egoist).
So this name to me at least always has been a telling name, if Terry has been conscious about this or not.
In Italian I don't know but in German, pronounced in native German tongue, it slightly sounds like "Wassen Ego!", literally translated "What an ego!" (I don't know if there is a similar cry of despair in English), meaning somebody with a very very big self-confidence who wants to climb the ladder very very fast (and often also may be very selfish, an egoist).
So this name to me at least always has been a telling name, if Terry has been conscious about this or not.
UnseenAcademical88 said:
Tonyblack said:
As UA88 pointed out, Bouncy - Eric isn't published by Transworld. 
Who knew a book discussion would focus so heavily on formatting issues?
It's a strange one for me. I enjoy it a lot but it comes off the back of three GREAT novels. It's difficult not to read it in one sitting.
I get the impression it was an idea that tickled Terry and he just ran with it as a bit of fun. It's an enjoyable book, but nowhere near the standard of Guards! Guards! or Moving Pictures to come.
I've more thoughts on it here if you are stuck in the office and bored as hell. I know I am!
It's a strange one for me. I enjoy it a lot but it comes off the back of three GREAT novels. It's difficult not to read it in one sitting.
I get the impression it was an idea that tickled Terry and he just ran with it as a bit of fun. It's an enjoyable book, but nowhere near the standard of Guards! Guards! or Moving Pictures to come.
I've more thoughts on it here if you are stuck in the office and bored as hell. I know I am!
If I recall correctly, Eric was said to have been done mostly to give Josh Kirby a chance to do more than just a cover picture. Still, I think there was a bit more than that to it. If nothing else, it fits nicely into the UK tradition of panto, even using some of the catchphrases. It also manage to pick up many of the Disc's creation myths.
Eric does another thing, fairly subtly. It follows the Octavo's confusion about what came first in the process of creating the Discworld - there's a big hiss, another hiss, an egg, a musical twang, a second musical twang, the spells themselves, and so on. That part can be meta-read as a description of the process of creative writing as well, even to the question of which bit to change, and where there might be a bit of ropy filling-in.
I'm not sure why anyone else hasn't mentioned it, but I found the part about the Tezuman Empire to be a riot. Then again, I must confess to be something of an "amateur expert" on pre-Columbian (or, to be more precise, pre-Cortesian) Mesoamerican cultures. So.
I always loved this bit:
Not to mention Quezovercoatl. What a pun! :doh:
The parody of the Trojan war is also well done, and I like the bit about "living forever". However, the highlight for me is the trip through hell. All in all, a fairly enjoyable (if short) book - but I can understand that, with three other books coming out in the same year, Pterry presumably didn't have time to devote his full attention to this one. Oh well! :whistle:
By the way, this one gains enormously from Stephen Briggs's adaptation on audiobook (as do them all, but particularly this one). I consider Stephen's adaptation to be far superior to Tony Robinson's, mainly because Tony's adaptations are always cut heavily to fit on three CDs, which means that a lot of funny material is cut. However, the early books (read by Nigel Planer) are also very well done, and usually much more whimsical. Despite this, Stephen brings some much-needed gravitas to his portrayal of Vetinari and Death - whereas Nigel's Death sounds vaguely like a parody of Himself, with lots of echo.
Anyway, that's my (relatively) short review of Eric!
I always loved this bit:
Not to mention Quezovercoatl. What a pun! :doh:
The parody of the Trojan war is also well done, and I like the bit about "living forever". However, the highlight for me is the trip through hell. All in all, a fairly enjoyable (if short) book - but I can understand that, with three other books coming out in the same year, Pterry presumably didn't have time to devote his full attention to this one. Oh well! :whistle:
By the way, this one gains enormously from Stephen Briggs's adaptation on audiobook (as do them all, but particularly this one). I consider Stephen's adaptation to be far superior to Tony Robinson's, mainly because Tony's adaptations are always cut heavily to fit on three CDs, which means that a lot of funny material is cut. However, the early books (read by Nigel Planer) are also very well done, and usually much more whimsical. Despite this, Stephen brings some much-needed gravitas to his portrayal of Vetinari and Death - whereas Nigel's Death sounds vaguely like a parody of Himself, with lots of echo.
Anyway, that's my (relatively) short review of Eric!
Re: the Trojan Horse (Explanation) plus other things!
It’s 6 years later, but I believe I can explain this because I’ve done A LOT of reading about the Trojan Wars etc.
The mythological explanation, in short, is that the Trojans worshipped Poseidon. As well as being the god of the sea, Poseidon was also the god of horses. So when the Greeks “left” and left behind a giant wooden horse, the Trojans considered it to be a peace offering - which is why they brought it inside their city, to celebrate. “We won the war! Yay!”
The more prosaic (but also more interesting) explanation comes from military technology. It’s possible that the Trojan Horse was a reference to the battering ram, a siege weapon. This was basically a long and thick wooden pole, long enough to be grasped by 5 or 6 people, and swung against wooden doors to bash them in. The end of the ram was usually decorated with iron animal heads - normally a ram (which is why it’s called a battering ram), but it could be a horse or anything else. Here’s what it (may have) looked like:
Number 1
Number 2
Number 3
Please note, of course, that no battering ram in history ever looked like Grond.
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Incidentally, earlier today I had a “facepalm” moment. At one point during Eric, the parrot tells Rincewind that Eric’s grandfather always tried to conjure up a succubus, but that “it never worked; all he ever got was a Neuralger.” (It’s a demon that comes and has a headache at you).
For years, the name “Neuralger” bugged me because I was sure that I’d heard it before, and was never sure where. I finally figured it out... it’s a reference to neuralgia, isn’t it?
Groan... *headdesks*
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“Tonyblack“ said:
I must admit that the story of the Trojan Horse never made a lot of sense to me either. Terry’s version works much better.
The mythological explanation, in short, is that the Trojans worshipped Poseidon. As well as being the god of the sea, Poseidon was also the god of horses. So when the Greeks “left” and left behind a giant wooden horse, the Trojans considered it to be a peace offering - which is why they brought it inside their city, to celebrate. “We won the war! Yay!”
The more prosaic (but also more interesting) explanation comes from military technology. It’s possible that the Trojan Horse was a reference to the battering ram, a siege weapon. This was basically a long and thick wooden pole, long enough to be grasped by 5 or 6 people, and swung against wooden doors to bash them in. The end of the ram was usually decorated with iron animal heads - normally a ram (which is why it’s called a battering ram), but it could be a horse or anything else. Here’s what it (may have) looked like:
Number 1
Number 2
Number 3
Please note, of course, that no battering ram in history ever looked like Grond.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Incidentally, earlier today I had a “facepalm” moment. At one point during Eric, the parrot tells Rincewind that Eric’s grandfather always tried to conjure up a succubus, but that “it never worked; all he ever got was a Neuralger.” (It’s a demon that comes and has a headache at you).
For years, the name “Neuralger” bugged me because I was sure that I’d heard it before, and was never sure where. I finally figured it out... it’s a reference to neuralgia, isn’t it?
Groan... *headdesks*
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I have a question! (Don't worry, it's short).
I recently re-read "The Capture of Cerberus" (from "The Labours of Hercules", by Agatha Christie). In the short story, Poirot has to go to a nightclub called "Hell", created by his good friend, Vera Rossakoff. So, the following 'bit' reminds me of "Eric" ...
Sounds familiar? Near the end of "Eric", Rincewind and Eric observe the steps-with-good-intentions when they come out of Hell.
Maybe Terry "borrowed" the idea, or maybe it came to him on its own. What do you think, hmm?
(Don't worry, it's short). I recently re-read "The Capture of Cerberus" (from "The Labours of Hercules", by Agatha Christie). In the short story, Poirot has to go to a nightclub called "Hell", created by his good friend, Vera Rossakoff. So, the following 'bit' reminds me of "Eric" ...
Sounds familiar? Near the end of "Eric", Rincewind and Eric observe the steps-with-good-intentions when they come out of Hell.
Maybe Terry "borrowed" the idea, or maybe it came to him on its own. What do you think, hmm?
The saying definitely predates Christie, but I don't think I saw this pune recreated literally - except in "Eric" and in Christie.
That's why I thought that IF (that's a big if) Terry didn't think of it on his own, he may have "borrowed" the idea. But there's no shame in that. Writers borrow ideas all the time.
That's why I thought that IF (that's a big if) Terry didn't think of it on his own, he may have "borrowed" the idea. But there's no shame in that. Writers borrow ideas all the time.
A question here about this book - specifically, about this quote from "Eric" (the speakers are, respectively, Astfgl and Vassenego):
Sorry, I don't get it. It sounds like the punchline to a joke, but I'm not sure. Does anyone know what this means?
Sorry, I don't get it.
It sounds like the punchline to a joke, but I'm not sure. Does anyone know what this means?
Hmm. Astfgl has just been promoted to Supreme Executive Life President of Hell (basically, kicked upstairs where he can't interfere or do any damage).
There's nothing more in the conversation about the carpets, though -- although it's mentioned earlier in Eric that Astfgl has been making very unpopular changes in Hell, like (fake) potted plants, coffee machines that make coffee that tastes like cat's pee, etc. The most noticeable change is the lack of any fires or physical tortures (because souls don't have any nerves and so can't feel physical pain), and the introduction of mental torture (e.g. a demon showing souls endless boring pictures of itself on holiday, and commenting on them in an endless monotone voice).
There's nothing more in the conversation about the carpets, though -- although it's mentioned earlier in Eric that Astfgl has been making very unpopular changes in Hell, like (fake) potted plants, coffee machines that make coffee that tastes like cat's pee, etc. The most noticeable change is the lack of any fires or physical tortures (because souls don't have any nerves and so can't feel physical pain), and the introduction of mental torture (e.g. a demon showing souls endless boring pictures of itself on holiday, and commenting on them in an endless monotone voice).